With the human mind being bombarded with different beliefs and opinions here and there, it’s all up to you to determine how to manage them. By gaining better perspectives on every topic out there, you can achieve better decision-making and critical thinking skills. Joining Samantha Postman for a diverse discussion about the most important issues is David Kimbell. Together, they determine the right time and place to use labels, as well as how the admirable #MeToo Movement gave birth to a dreadful monster. David and Samantha also dissect today’s public school system, explaining the lasting impact of age group segregation and shared language on kids. Samantha even shares her passion for photography and how it opened her eyes to appreciating life’s beauty, which is best seen at 10D/HDR.
Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Transcriptions @ http://samanthapostman.com.
07:18 – Straddling the Border Between Order and Chaos
09:42 – Good Times to Use Labels
16:43 – The #MeToo Essay
27:38 – Guilty Before Proven Innocent
33:26 – The #MeToo Monster
44:04 – When Did Segregation into Age Groups Start?
50:19 – A Severe Critique of the Public School System
58:01 – Educating Your Kids Using a Shared Language
59:24 – Seeing the World in 10-D
Listen to the podcast here:
Unwanted Labels, Travel, Alarming Mentoring Favoritism, Salty Rant on School System & Seeing the World In 10D/ HDR w/ David Kimbell, part 1 of 2
Samantha: We have a treat for you on this episode. We have Dave Kimbell. We know each other from a community called Ship 30 for 30 where we’re in a challenge where we write for 30 days essays and we post on Twitter. It’s been really cool. We’ve both grown through this. If you’re interested in doing anything where you’re going to meet a great community, get to expand your network while building your writing, I recommend it. Interestingly enough, Dave happens to be a copywriter. He’s reinventing himself. He is an engineer by first trade, used to work in the UK for about twenty years and has come back to Canada. He’s doing what we all want to do to get that, “Let’s remake myself and try something different stage.” Dave, welcome to the show.
Dave: Thank you very much. I’m delighted to be here. That’s a good bio and intro of me. That puts me quite accurately. Aeronautical, mechanical and systems engineer for 30 years and now reinventing myself as a copywriter and consultant living in Ottawa, Canada.
Samantha: I’m glad to have you here. This is not a normal show like what people think a show is going to be. I like to flip the script a little bit but this time flip the script is where the guest asks me questions. Usually, it goes the other way around and I hope you don’t flay me up in the comments and say, “You’re supposed to let the guests talk.” That’s not this show. If you want to hear the guests talk, you got to go phone them up yourself and talk to them directly. This episode is where Dave reached out to me and said, “I noticed some things you’ve written online and I want to talk some more about it. Would you be able to have some time on when we get on a chat?” I was like, “Sweet. Sounds great and interesting. I got a show. Are you up for this?”
What I do is kind of Joe Rogan style but he calls it Samantha Postman style and we will use those questions you had that brought you to me that you wanted to ask. Whatever it is you wanted to ask me, we’ll use those as our guiding posts and then from there, I’m like, “I hope Dave’s okay.” From there, it’s add on the fly rabbit trail because that’s where the sweet stuff happens. That’s what you’re getting. None of this is rehearsed. We have no scripts. The only thing we had is a couple of questions that started the reason for our connection and for the rest, we don’t know it’s going to be. I look forward to the show and Dave. I’m so glad you’re here with us.
This show is turning out a lot different than I thought. The first ones I did were solo. In the beginning, I knew I was always going to interview people or have people on the show or something but I wasn’t sure what that was going to look like. I didn’t have a solid plan for that yet. Out of the blue two communities I’ve been in, Roam Research community with the book club, now with Ship 30 for 30 and I’m getting requests for interviews. They’re like, “I’d love to talk about this. I’d love to talk to you about that.” They’re different so the show is turning into a little bit more of a, “Can we pick your mind? Let’s talk for a little while about whatever it is that drew you to want to talk.” I’m loving this format so it may be my thing. It’s like Ask Sam which seems a little narcissistic so I’m having trouble with that.
Dave: That’s normal and maybe even healthy. I have a client that I’ve been working for. She’s basically a coach. She started off as a coach in the decluttering space. She has taken off. She’s doing six digits easily. I don’t know the precise numbers but she’s doing well. She has a whole cadre of largely women that she’s helping who think she’s god. They can’t say enough good things about her. While she’s got a great camera presence, she’s normally humble and modest. This makes her rather uncomfortable. What I’ve been telling her is, “This is what these women want. Be god for them for a little while.” She gets that but it’s not easy.
Samantha: We’re meant to live in the tension and that’s where the beautiful life happens. I was talking to Casey Li. She was interviewing me about why I wanted to do a podcast. She’s got this cool app to help podcasters make it easier for them to get their voice out. We were talking about living in the tension. When I mentor young adults, we prefer black and white. That’s what we’re taught from a young age. Black or white, this or that, this political party or that political party, you’re left-wing or right-wing. Are you for women or against women? Are you for or against black and white? Life isn’t like that. We want to use light and dark but as a photographer, I get to see something different. One, there are all shades of light and dark. When is the most beautiful time of day?“We're meant to live in the tension, and that's where the beautiful life happens. @SamanthaPostman” Click To Tweet
Dave: Early morning.
Samantha: Also, early evening when there is no black, it’s not all night and it’s not all day. It’s not all black and it’s not all white. That’s where the beauty is. When you can navigate that, that’s the part that’s beautiful and that’s where we’re meant to live. Trying to shoot for that sunrise, trying to shoot for that sunset.
Dave: That sounds similar to Jordan Peterson. I don’t know if you watched much of Jordan Peterson but he talks about the yin and the yang, chaos and order. The ideal place to live is right on the boundary between the two.
Samantha: That’s a beautiful picture. When I was talking about it, that’s what it reminded me of because we see the black and the white because they’re predominant and in yin and yang and we see that a lot. It’s a symbol of balance and it’s a symbol of the beautiful line in the middle but it’s not what the human eye is trained to see. We’re trained to see where the majority sits on the white side of the black side. Our eyes are not trained to see that little sliver in the middle where the beautiful part is.
Dave: Do you know why that is? I don’t so I’m asking.
Samantha: If I were to venture into some guesses, I would say as humans, it’s a tribal thing to try to be where the group is. I don’t like using black and white because of the racial issues of white and black people. I’m not talking about it from a race perspective. We’re using the yin and the yang and using dark and light. We gravitate to where the tribe is. It’s the majority and the average. We’re all trying to be a little above average, to be honest, or even average. That creates a majority because most people will settle there. That’s part of it and it also takes up a lot more vision space.
Look at the day. The day took up way more space than the sunrise or the sunset, that’s a tiny sliver. We think about the whole day because it’s predominantly part of our day, our 24-hour clock. It’s a human condition. Some people, like creatives, are trained to look at the middle. They can see in black and white. They acknowledge it but they choose to be that middle part where they see what’s the tension between the two, the beautiful parts. That’s why there’s a whole thing out there like a 1% creator economy or something like that. That’s exactly it. I haven’t read any of this. This is kind of how I observe people and humans in the world, I suppose. What do you think about that?
Dave: I’m living without realizing it. I haven’t done a lot of thinking about which is why I asked the question. I try hard to listen to perspectives that are different from mine and to befriend and hang out with people who are as different from me as possible. I’m aware that I probably gravitate unconsciously to one side or the other. I can only see the world through these two eyes. That’s not going to give me a balanced perspective. The only way I’m going to get anything close to a balanced perspective is by mixing it up with people who see from completely different angles. That’s where I think of it as straddling the border between order and chaos.
I don’t know how well I’m doing it. I find myself drawn to people who have a different opinion on stuff and can express it not too emotionally. We can’t avoid being irrational. If people are striving to express their point of view from a rational perspective, “They’ve experienced that. I can see why they’d conclude that. I’m not sure I agree still but if I was in their shoes, I probably would think exactly like that.” It forces me to reevaluate my own perspective and get away from any kind of dogma that I might possibly be drifting towards. I probably adopt a libertarian, which most people would probably label as an extremely right-wing perspective on a lot of things. I don’t think it is right-wing. It’s just libertarian. I’m aware that I might have stuff wrong.
Samantha: You touched on something there. It’s important to think of us on continuums as opposed to on sides. I lean towards the libertarian side. It says something different than, “I’m a libertarian.” You’ve said, “I’m white or I’m black.” Instead of saying, “I’m leaning,” it’s saying, “I’m on a continuum.” For me, when I say it that way, what I’m meaning is, “I may be a little bit more egalitarian on one side and more libertarian on the other side but it depends on what we’re talking about.” It’s not a camp of, “Here are my principles. It’s yes or no based on those principles.” It’s a continuum and I may be in a different spot on each one. It’s like Myers-Brigg.
They put you on a continuum. You could be an E all the way on one side and a T all the way on the other side. In the end, you become somewhat balanced. I dislike labels a lot. I will use them because it’s better for people to understand and you can make your point quickly with a label. They can be good. I will use labels when I’m hoping someone will step into them. That’s when we should be using labels but they’re not the kind that everyone thinks. You have potential. You have courage. You have kindness. I see this in you. I see that in you. Those are good times to use labels. You got me up a little bit. I get a little passionate about that. I get a little edgy when people pick, “I’m this and I’m that.”
Dave: I don’t like labels either. The labels you picked are not names like kind and compassionate. They’re adjectives.
Samantha: You can use them for labels.
Dave: They’re better ones. Labels, most of the time when I hear them used, they’re used as a shortcut. I need to be able to figure you out as quickly as possible because I don’t want to spend the time trying to figure out who you are. That takes too many years. I want to be able to categorize so I can go back to sleep. Thanks very much. If you can give me what those labels are then I can do that.
Samantha: It can be effective. What you made me think of is, if I meet a fellow Christian, I will often ask them what denomination they worship at. I won’t give the label. Are you a Baptist, Protestant or Catholic? I don’t use those words. I’m like, “Where do you choose to worship?” That often is what I’ll say and I can figure it out by the name. I will use that because it helps me understand quickly the predictability and the most likely way that they’re going to interact with me. That will help me be gentler where I need to be or it will help me phrase things or reframe things in a way that will make it easier for them to communicate with me back and forth. Those are times I find are helpful.
I know that you read on my website that I was a tax expert for many years. I never thought of it like that. I’m looking at T4s and T5s. T4s are employment slips so where they worked, which will tell me if you are a plumber, an electrician or a pastor. It’s those labels. I get to see where they donate to if they do so that’s going to tell me something about them and what kind of investments they have. Are you a safe person?
Are you in treasuries and GICs, Guaranteed Income Certificates, with a set interest rate? Are you playing the mutual funds that you’re getting in Canada as T3s, which are used for those kinds of investments? That tells me something about you. Those things helped me pick up. Until we talked, I didn’t realize that each of those things told me something about someone quickly. After doing them for so many years, it’s muscle memory. You start to ask people a couple of questions and it can help you quickly kind of get a sense of them, I suppose but I still try to stay away from labels.
Dave: It’s going to be an ongoing struggle because we are barraged by so much information.
Samantha: We have to learn how to process it quickly. The Germans were amazing for categorization. They were hammering out manufacturing. They’re machines, generally speaking, historically. That’s because they have a quick categorization process. It makes it easy to say yes or no. Where does this go? How does it go? How do we log it? How do we find it back? There’s a value in it. I don’t know where you are on a faith level but when I talk to people about traveling, sometimes they say, “What do you like about traveling?” I am so fascinated with meeting new people especially from different cultures. It’s something I’ve loved since I was little.
I have a Seminary degree. I did that when I was 40 and it was during that time that I started thinking about what it is I love about traveling. I realized that what I love is when I meet people. In the Bible, it says that we’re made in God’s image so if we are image-bearers then that means we must represent his attributes. No one person, race or country can have all of them in one. When I travel the world, I think of it as getting to experience different versions of God. We were talking about God and Germans. I’ll let you sit on that.
Dave: I’ve been reading through Charles Haanel’s Master Key System. I’ve got it right here. He was one of a group of new thought thinkers, that’s what they call themselves over a century ago. Out of that spawned the original Law of Attraction literature but he uses similar language to what you described. If you think of God as a whole or think of Him as a mathematical function, I don’t know if you remember your high school calculus, you differentiate a function. Did you get into that at all?
Samantha: I took Calculus.
Dave: You’re basically chopping the function up into tiny little bits. That’s what we are. We’re tiny little bits of the God Function. Integrate them all together and you have the whole. I don’t think that the whole human race all equals God but that’s effectively what you do. When you integrate all the little bits of DY or DX together, that’s how you start to get a bigger picture of the hole. That’s the kind of language that he uses there.“Humans are tiny little bits of the God Function. Integrate them all together and you have a bigger picture. @davidkimbell @SamanthaPostman” Click To Tweet
Samantha: It’s exactly how I would envision it if I was to use mathematical metaphors or visualization. Sometimes I do use math but I forgot that you’re an engineer so I could have done that with you. I think in math a lot and mathematical concepts, I suppose. That’s the way I would see it. When I go to meet people of a particular nation and in general, there are certain attributes about them. When we were talking about the Germans and their ability to be categorized quickly and be super-efficient. I see that as an attribute of God, something that we would see in Him.
When I see the Africans dance with everything in them, they’re vibrant, beautiful and colors. White people aren’t even allowed to wear colors like that. I don’t know what it is with us white people but we could take some lessons from the Africans. It is so beautiful. They’re beautiful flowers and beautiful nature. Flaming Reds, poppies and tulips. I look at them and think about vibrancy and you see them dance. I was like, “That’s an expression of God and I get to see that when I’m around them.” I’ve never been to Africa in this particular case but I get to see it on television, which is cool or I have some friends who are Africans. I travel South a bit with Latin Americans. Every time I come in contact with those people, I’m going to call them and I feel like I get to experience an extra version of guidance. I love that. It’s like a treasure hunt or something like that.
Dave: I’ve got a question I’ve got to ask. The essay you posted on #MeToo, what caught me about that was it was an impression that I didn’t know was happening. I’m wondering, how did you discover that?
Samantha: I’m a female so it gives me an extra eye on things.
Dave: Have you experienced it since the #MeToo thing happened?
Samantha: If you don’t mind, I’m going to back up a little bit for people who are reading so they know what we’re talking about. The week of April 15, 2021, I posted an essay on my Twitter. That’s how Dave and I met. We’ve both been doing this. It’s called Ship 30 for 30 Essay Challenge. You write for 30 days and post it on Twitter. It’s absolutely phenomenal. I would recommend it to anyone. Unless your marriage is in trouble, don’t do it. I’m not joking.
My husband told me that he thinks I’m having an affair with Apple because he sees me on the computer or on my tablet. We used to cuddle in the morning and that was kind of our time before the day gets busy. I get up early now so I can get my essay in the morning so he’s definitely not cheerleading this one. That was a little side note. That’s how we met. It was on the fifteenth day but before that, I wrote a little bit some fun stuff and embarrassing stuff that’s a little bit more story-ish. I started to build up the courage and on the fifteenth day, I wrote an essay.
Samantha: That’s the name of the essay. How I introed it was, “We’re seeing the #MeToo backlash across all organization types. Women are being cheated from essential mentorship that sharpens skills for advancement, organizational movement and creating a monster that both men and women are afraid to talk about.” In this article, I unpack what I say is the glass ceiling getting thicker or perhaps another glass ceiling that’s replaced the old one because of the #MeToo backlash and strongly because of the Billy Graham and Pence Movement, which was super admirable at the time.
Their policy was no eat, no meet and no travel with a woman alone. What has happened is, now all of a sudden, women don’t get to be at that meeting, at that table and with the travel but someone has to go with them so it’s males. Males are getting an edge over females when it comes to mentorship. In the article, I chose to use the word mentorship. I’ve been asked, interestingly enough, quite a few times why I chose that angle because you probably guessed this.
This is a larger implication than just mentorship. That’s how I chose to approach it. Now that you’re all on-page of what happened here, also, that article I posted on LinkedIn hit the top 1% for that day. I got quite a bit of interaction with it and I don’t have a lot of connections there. I don’t keep my LinkedIn up too much because there’s quite a bit of cold calling going on in there. Dave, I’ll shoot it back to you. What is it that you wanted to ask about that particular article that I wrote?
Dave: I’m curious how you discovered this. You mentor a lot of young people. Was it them telling this is what’s happening?
Samantha: To back up a little bit, I noticed a lot of things, Dave. I honestly might write about six essays to be delivered when I die, stuff that I noticed about the culture that I don’t know if I’d be brave enough to speak out loud. I have a skill in noticing things. I’m a noticer. I’m the master of noticer. I notice things or something that feels different for me for some reason and I’m like, “Why? Why does that feel different? What’s going on? Why are people acting differently? Why are they saying what they’re doing? How is this affecting people?”
I think, I ask, research, watch, keep it in the back of my mind and watch for more. That’s how this happened. To be honest, I was in Costa Rica when the #MeToo Movement happened. I was sitting crazy enough at a table in a hostel and it was during Hurricane Nate. There was barely any Wi-Fi. It was a crazy experience, honestly. We’ve been to 18 to 30-year-olds in candlelight and they’re like, “What’s the #MeToo Movement that’s happening? What’s going on?”
I remember being down there going, “The world shook,” and I was in the middle of a storm. The world was shaking where I was. People died. It was a terrible storm when I was down there. The thing was most people didn’t know this was already starting. People don’t know that was happening 1 to 2 years before already. It just wasn’t so vocal. The year before #MeToo, a year to the date, I was in Ecuador, doing some consulting work for 30 ministry agents. They do relief work for women who’ve been battered, they do earthquake relief, young adult mentoring, they work in the schools to try to help students graduate, go on and make a great life for themselves. They offer English lessons. It’s great the stuff they do.
This was a year before #MeToo and they already were starting to have to change the doors so there was glass on all the doors. That was one of my first inklings that there’s a serious problem coming down. There was a male who normally was behind the door. They had to put glass so any clients that came or co-workers, anyone can see what’s going on in that office at all times. These are agencies that don’t have a lot of money but they’re worried about the reputation. There’s the Bill Hybels scandal. The ripple effect of that is unbelievable. Even if he did or didn’t do it, it’s the question that got there and what happened. That toppled that enterprise on a dime and nobody else wants that to happen to the organization so people were already being proactive before the #MeToo.
When I was in Ecuador, they’re changing the doors to glass or taking the doors off. The policies were already changing and this was a year before so I started to see it and I thought, “I wonder what’s going to happen with this as we go along.” My heart was breaking because a lot of times for a woman and a pastor, there’s nowhere else she can go to talk and that was a safe place to talk to a man. I try not to get too emotional because my autoimmune kind of flares up. I didn’t have a lot of good men in my life. To be honest, to have a pastor that I can trust to go to like a solid wholesome man that I wouldn’t have anything like that in my life, I don’t think you understand what that is to a woman. To be able to have a male who is stable, gentle, going to listen and safe.
All of a sudden, we’re telling the whole world that person might not be safe anymore. You have no safe place to go. There’s nowhere safe for women, I’m telling you that. Unless they want to go to a women’s agency, there aren’t few places where women can go and talk to me safely anymore. I got a little off track. That wasn’t about #MeToo. It’s me being upset about what’s going on and what’s happening. It’s the whole thing. It’s the ripple effect and the ramifications of what’s happening with the scandals that are coming out, which are minor. They’re made huge because the media loves to love them but there are so few. I wish they published how many leaders there are and how many of those scandals happened. I don’t know what the percentage would be but it’d be tiny.
Dave: It’s small but it seems close to 100%.
Samantha: They say the tail wags the dog. Maybe that’s a bad metaphor but this smaller thing. It’s not small. It’s smaller when you look at the good of the entities, organizations and nonprofits. What they’re doing for good in the world is needed. Look at our world. The more love we can have, the better. These scandals are shutting the good ones down even without the scandals in them and they’re shutting their doors down. I’m upset that women have nowhere to go. A lot of pastors won’t even counsel anymore for insurance reasons. They’re like, “You need to go to a professional counselor,” which a lot of people aren’t going to do.
Dave: They can’t afford it or can’t find one that they can trust.
Samantha: The vulnerable are becoming more vulnerable. Where then do they go? Ideally, they’re going to hopefully go to a nonprofit organization if they can get there. It’s not always safer. That’s complicated. However, those are getting shut down and those are getting handcuffed now, too. What we need is women preaching other women. How are women going to get mentored if it’s all the men in leadership? Do you have any idea what that puts on a woman? The requests I get to mentor women, I can only mentor so many women and be good at what I do. If I’m mentoring all these women, I’m not in the workplace but let’s say they’d be like, “Samantha, you’re not making your quota. You’re not doing a good job.” I’m like, “It’s because I’m mentoring all the women.”
How am I supposed to get moved up? We’re not talking about nonprofit organizations but we’re talking about the corporate world. Lack of mentorship also means a lack of ability to build my skills. When promotion time comes, all of a sudden, I haven’t been groomed to take on that new position because I haven’t been invested in it because I’m a female. The guy who can go to eat, meet and travel is going to be eligible and he’s going to be more qualified. When they’re like, “I hired the most qualified person.” You did.
He was the most qualified. He had way more opportunities than I did. Sometimes when I bring this up, some companies are starting to go, “This shouldn’t be unfair for both. If we can’t do it for women, we’re not going to do it for men either.” That sucks, too. Why should men not have an opportunity for the best mentors? I’m so angry about it. I have boys. I don’t want them to be passed over because there are some rules that we have to make the same for men and women.
Dave: I’m mulling it over. I have been curious about what it looks like from the female perspective in the workplace.
Samantha: This even happens in schools. Think about what it’s like in universities and post-secondary schools. If you’ve got a female who’s a Master’s student taking a Master’s or PhD and she gets matched up with a faculty member, more than likely the faculty member is going to be a male because the males are the ones with the Doctorate for lots of reasons. What happens when these #MeToo things come in and they already are, all of a sudden, she can’t meet him after office hours anymore even on the university campus. There have to be 2 or 3 people on staff at the same time. All of a sudden, she is not going to get the same education because you can’t meet after hours or when there’s not enough staff available. The other thing too is the whole thing implies that both are going into going in with ill intentions.
Dave: Guilty before proven innocent.
Samantha: What are we saying? We’re saying to him, “I should feel this way because society says that this is normal for me to want to be with him.” Society says the other thing to the guy. Men tell me things. They’re like, “Samantha, one of my biggest fears is getting wrongly accused of sexual misconduct.” I’m like, “These are business owners, people who own practices, people own firms and they’re telling me that their biggest fear is getting wrongly accused.”
Dave: It does happen.
Samantha: That’s so minor.
Dave: It’s minor but it’s enough. The threat of it happening is enough to make them think that way.
Samantha: The power of social media, they have a good reason to be because even in that case, it’s guilty until proven innocent. Most of those are not false accusations, I would say. It’s interesting because it’s not as easy as people think. A woman is dragged through the mud 500 million times over and back if she makes that kind of accusation. It’s very unlikely. It’s not too often that those have nothing founded even if they’re not as vivid as maybe they’re accounted for but there was something going on even if it’s an energy or something but still. It’s this distrust. When a guy tells me that, I’m like, “I feel for you.” The female in me is like, “Why would you think that a woman would do that to you? You don’t trust us?” I’m fighting with myself because I’m feeling so much compassion for him and at the same time, I’m like, “What does that say?”
Dave: It’s hard to avoid taking it personally. I can see it from his perspective.
Samantha: I can. That’s not a way to operate.
Dave: It’s going to force the world to split into 2, 4 and 8 because it’s more than male or female. It’s bad.
Samantha: I generally don’t go and speak out about things unless I feel I have some plausible solutions. That’s not my style. There are a lot of people who complain about problems in the world and there’s a certain amount of intelligence that you need to be able to point a problem out. To me, that’s the easy part. What can we do to solve this? What can we do to move towards a non-problem even if it’s not a total solution? In this case, I’m not in the corporate world much anymore and I’m not in a place. It’s funny because Alicia mentioned, “Samantha, maybe this is for you to see and let other people grow.” I thought that was interesting because he used a farming analogy probably on purpose. My husband and I manage a farm.
As soon as he said that, I’m like, “For farmers, it’s hard because we plant, fertilize and take care of it. God comes along and puts the sun there in the rain but we take care of it from start to finish. All the way to harvest.” I didn’t think about it until he said it. I was like, “Maybe that’s why it’s hard for me. I always think that I’ve got to stay the whole time,” but I don’t. Sometimes it’s okay to plant and let other people take it from there. The harvest doesn’t have to be ours.
“Sometimes, it's okay to plant and let other people take it from there. The harvest doesn't have to be ours. @SamanthaPostman” Click To Tweet
Dave: It almost definitely won’t be. It’s somewhere in the Bible where it’s, “I plant you and you reap.” I forget exactly where it is and what it says but it’s there.
Samantha: I’m not sure where this is going to go and I don’t know if I answered anything for you. I definitely got quite a few DMs and some comments on there. Someone wrote me a message which is like, “WTF? This is happening and I had no idea.” They were so angry. Where I am, I’m not trying to make anyone angry. I’m trying to build awareness. I am a little bit angry about some stuff but I wasn’t trying to make everyone else angry.
Dave: I don’t have any intelligent thoughts to come back with that.
Samantha: You probably will after you’ve gone off-screen and you’re in bed. You’re going like, “Why didn’t I think of saying that?” That’s what I do sometimes. I’m like, “Damn. That would have been a perfect response.” That’s what happens when it’s unscripted like this. You don’t always have to say your best things because you don’t have time to articulate and mold around. At the same time, sometimes it can be your best things because it’s not as filtered.
Dave: I’m almost scared to reply.
Samantha: This is going to be live. That’s something that you should take some time to think about and not necessarily say.
Dave: I am scared to reply because I do speak for a lot of men in this regard. I’m scared to say anything because the moment I opened my mouth, I’m afraid there’s going to be somebody who says, “You shut up. You don’t know anything. What do you know?” All men are thinking, “I’m going to keep my mouth shut. I’m not even going to play.”
Samantha: I’m going to challenge you on that one because I had the most interaction with men, which was hard but it was amazing and it touched my heart.
Dave: I would be willing to bet they didn’t tell you everything they were thinking.
Samantha: Some did. I got some DMs. There are probably more to the stories. On LinkedIn, I got a couple too like, “I saw this in my workplace and this is what happened.” I’m a little nervous about that. I definitely do want my inbox flooding because this isn’t my hill to die on. I have a limited life and this isn’t my hill to die on. I definitely don’t want to get pulled into the conversation too much or where it takes over my entire life. That also goes for women. I did a mind map of this whole overarching thing. It’s not this #MeToo. There’s other stuff too. I did a mind map.
I mapped out this overarching thing that’s gnawing at me inside and started popping things over. The #MeToo, Mat Leave and all these kinds of things that I’m seeing. I broke off some branches and I put male and female. Why is no one saying anything? Why aren’t they saying anything? The male, some of what you said came. #MeToo was needed in many ways. A lot of good came out of it. However, I’m a female so I’ve got to hold the female flag and do everything that the females do. It’s like the black and white thing. If I say, “This went too far. There’s a negative repercussion happening here and I call it the #MeToo Monster that has emerged.” I named the thing and said, “This is a #MeToo Monster.”
In the #MeToo Movement, a #MeToo Monster is a guy who’s sexually assaulted someone. I didn’t know that when I wrote the #MeToo Monster until I used the hashtag and all this stuff came up. A bunch of people has that as their campaign. They were hurt badly. The more we speak up about something, the more we own it, the more we’re not going to move off of our line. When somebody else, a female comes up, I’m supposed to be toeing the party line and waving the flag. I’m like, “I’m not okay with all of this.” All of a sudden, I betrayed the women. I’m going to call it a race.“The more you speak up about something, the more you own it, and the more you are not going to move off of your line. @SamanthaPostman” Click To Tweet
Dave: You let down the sisterhood. How dare you?
Samantha: You let down the brotherhood. The brotherhood is stronger than the sisterhood and that’s why a lot of this stuff went under the table because all these males shoveled stuff onto the table. Women are a little less that way. They’re a little less sisterhood-ish but it’s still there.
Dave: I would dispute that.
Samantha: It probably depends on where you are and what it is that you’re talking about, I suppose. We both can do it. It depends on what you’re talking about. For women, it’s hard. I don’t want to betray the sisterhood, for sure. There’s a lot of pressure but I’m not in the corporate world, particularly with COVID. As with everybody else, I’m reinventing myself in some ways which I was already doing before. I was betraying the confidence of some people in the executive world and nonprofit organizations that were telling me things. I felt like if I spoke up, they would think I was betraying their confidence.
Dave: With the #MeToo essay?
Samantha: Yeah. When I write things on there because I’m like, “This is happening in this organization, this organization and this organization.” When someone goes and publicly posts something, we all think that they’re talking about us even if they’re not. I didn’t want them to be like, “I told you that in confidence.” Years have gone by and the world has changed. I’ve changed and grown bolder. I want to see what’s best for everyone. I know that doesn’t always work and that’s for some ideal world that isn’t going to happen. We can definitely strive to be better. It’s never going to be perfect because every time you solve a problem there’s another problem that pops right back up. Do you remember that Whac-A-Mole thing? You get the mole down and three more pop up. That’s what happened to #MeToo. You’re down.
Dave: That’s quite an analogy with life in that one.
Samantha: Two more moles popped up. I was like, “We’ve got to whack those ones but life is going to keep whacking them down.” The minute we stopped, moles all popped right back up. There’s always going to be a mole.
Dave: Only now the moles that pop up are wielding weapons. It seems like they’re wielding weapons and they’re happy to wield them not against you but against people that are close to you. Suddenly, you’re not the only one who suffers if you say something. Other people don’t suffer because of it. That’s a different story. I didn’t buy into that. That’s what we’re thinking. I’ll keep my mouth shut, at least so my brain tends to operate. If I’m afraid, I’m going to start an argument, unbeknownst to me then I go, “No.” Rightly or wrongly, maybe it’s wrongly.
Samantha: It can be a marriage. In my particular case, I’m much more outspoken than my husband. He’s more of a, “Let’s be unified and work together and keep our heads down.” He will do what’s right but not one to make a ripple about it. He will do it on his own. He sets a good example. He’s definitely more like this. He’s got that heritage. I hope I’m not going to regret this when he reads this. He knows I talked about it. I may regret it.
Dave: I’ll email him later and tell him what you said.
Samantha: He’ll probably be reading this. He’s been here for over 100 years. What happens is people will still act whatever their heritage is. It permeates down generations whether you think it or not. In Canada, we put the stamp on and we’re like, “Last night in Canada. I’m Canadian.” I’m like, “I don’t think that’s great. You are on a passport.” There’s a reason why the Netherlands was an occupied country. They didn’t join the Germans but they didn’t fight them either. They know how to be in the middle and they do it well. They did what’s right, they didn’t join but they’re not one to stand up and fight about it either. That’s part of who they are.
Dave: The Dutch Empire, for lack of a better term, was far smaller than either the British, French or any of the others.
Samantha: They would emigrate and move but they’re not conquerors per se, generally speaking. I don’t know if you noticed but I have a German, British, Scottish and Irish background. I’m always either taking over the world fighting for my country or I’m adventuring to go and conquer new lands and discover the world all at the same time. Our personalities are quite different. What you talk about, should we speak or not? Sometimes it’s like, “Is this going to cause ripples in my marriage?”
For him, his path is to do the right thing, live his way well and let the rest of the world do what they are. I’m more likely to step in and try to steer that a little bit. Sometimes when we speak or don’t speak, these happen. Over history, if you imagine how many things were not said or fought, it’s simply because a spouse wasn’t okay with something and how things did happen. There were some great things especially what happened in the UK with ending black slavery. People gave up their marriages to make that work. When you fight something, it takes everything.
Dave: I didn’t know that.
Samantha: They used to say, “Beside every great man is a great woman.” The sacrifice affects your family. It affects how people talk about you, how they talk about you, how they approach you. It dictates your life.
Dave: It becomes your marriage almost.
Samantha: Some people don’t always choose it. Sometimes your destiny chooses you, I suppose. You always can say no. Sometimes when we speak up, it’s like, “Is this good for my marriage?” My husband is pretty supportive. He compares me to a firecracker.
Dave: It’s not a good thing in a barn.
Samantha: That could be fun. You can get ones that don’t light anything on fire, can’t you?
Dave: Probably. I’m not sure.
Samantha: When you emailed me and said, “I’d love to have a conversation with you,” I’m like, “It sounds great. What do you want to talk about? This sounds awesome. It sounds like a lot of fun. Do you want to be on my show?” I said to you, “What are the reasons why you want us to talk?” From there, it’s rabbit trails. When you talk in the rabbit trails, a lot of the sweet stuff happens. They’re not always rabbit trails but let your mind flow. I said to you, “It’s Joe Rogan style.” After talking to me, you probably see that now.
Dave: I detected that earlier. I figured it was not going to be dull, let’s put it that way. Who wants dull?
Samantha: I was talking to my kids. They’re all young adults. They were visiting and I was telling them about our interview coming up and that you had reached out to me partially because of #MeToo. I’m telling them about it. My oldest son is well thought. He’s like, “These are the things that people have to navigate. You can do everything the right way and think you’re saying it with the best heart but are you ready?” I was talking to a psychiatrist in Scotland. When people talk to you, something I’ve noticed about them is often they’re talking to themselves, even if it’s a percentage.
When he said to me, “Have you thought about this and this?” We’re all selfish people. We’re always looking at things from our perspective. It’s revealing what people ask you. When he said this one, I was like, “How is this going to affect you? I need to think about that.” When I speak, how is this going to affect my kids? How is it going to affect a future job opportunity? It’s a question and it adds bandwidth to it. The more stuff you worry about what everyone’s going to think or say or how it’s going to affect you in the future, the less you speak. It’s not because it filters you but you don’t have the bandwidth. It’s overwhelming. It’s like someone puts a whole cover on you.
Dave: You also don’t want to see the pain in the people you love. The comeback lands on them instead of you.
Samantha: I’m only around for so long. What are you going to leave them? In many ways, it’s a little less of an issue in the younger generation because they’re not all defined by their parents anymore like it was 50 or 100 years ago. You can’t shake your family tree off that easily. Now, it’s a lot easier too.
Dave: One hundred years ago, I don’t think they did talk about things like Baby Boomers versus Generation X versus Generation Y versus Generation Z because there wasn’t that divide. Possibly because the world wasn’t changing fast.
Samantha: I have a theory. I’m curious. What else do you think happened?
Dave: I’m not sure. I want to hear your theory first. There was a lot of technology changing 100 years ago. That started to take off. The other thing happening is the influence of the government. Up to that point, it has been comparatively steady. It suddenly started to ramp up. One hundred years ago, we didn’t have an income tax. It had only been introduced in the UK. I’m not sure about Canada.
Samantha: It was 1917 in Canada.
Dave: When income taxes were introduced, they were 1%, 2% and then they were repealed. It was around World War I when we were starting to see a lot of people killed in the war. That was a huge war effort. That was expensive. There was a sudden sense that we shouldn’t be making old people drop dead on the factory floor. We should raise some money to make sure that they’ve got at least a couple of years to be sick before they die. All of a sudden, taxation starts to creep up. That has an influence. How does that all mix together? I’m not sure. What’s your theory?
Samantha: I want to on it a little bit. Whenever I see something change in a society, we need to look at society. What’s different about society? What’s different about culture? You’re already on that way, the government. Instrumentally, when it comes to separation of ages, I personally believe that happened when we started school systems. Now we segregated ages into age groups. First, we started with the one-room schoolhouses, which, to be honest, I went to. I lived in Montana for a little while. We were in the middle of nowhere. There was a bar and a school and that’s it. It’s 25 miles to the next town. The teacher lived on the premises. Twelve grades in one little tiny room. That’s a completely different environment.
When something got graded, it would go to the next grade. When you see a Little House on the Prairie, that was what my schoolhouse looked like. You pass it back. It somewhat modeled what the home looked like. We had all different ages together. Even still, there was segregation of children from adults before that. Especially when you look at settlements and tribals, there was never a separation between generations. We didn’t have seniors living in a home. We didn’t have babies going to baby care. Every generation was always mixed. There were no divisions. They didn’t keep birthdates. How long have people been doing birthdays? When you come from Africa and you meet somebody whose birthday is January 1st, it’s because their birthdate wasn’t logged. There’s no age logged.
Dave: It wasn’t even important.
Samantha: Now we have all these systems. We have governments. We can look at the East who are super good at categorizing things, categorizing people in schools. Now, what we’ve done is we’ve put all the kids who were five years old together, all the kids who were six years old together and all the kids who were seven years old together. We put those and group them together and said, “From this age, you’re together. You are a group. You are moving from here to here together.”
Dave: “We will educate you as if you were all the same as each other.”
Samantha: When I think about elementary, I think of 1 to 6. That’s a range of people. That range of people is now X age. Those are my people. We never did that before. That was never a thing. School has lots of great things about it. This one gets at me. As a personal experience, I feel the most insecure when I’m around my peers, women around my age. I feel insecure. I will self-hate. I’m going to think something is wrong with me, “My marriage isn’t good enough. My kids aren’t good enough. I’m not educated enough.” I don’t like to think about that all the time but I have to work at it. I have to work through those feelings and diffuse them. I’m not completely obsessed with that and have a bad image but I have to diffuse them. It’s an energy.
When I’m with young adults, there’s not even a millisecond of thought that goes into a comparative. It’s a full-on relationship. The same thing when I’m sitting with a senior, full-on relationship. What we’ve done and we’ve put billions of kids in a schoolroom with their grades and their peers. We wonder why they have anxiety and depression. There are a lot more reasons for that. We’ve put them with their peers all day long. How good is that for your mental wellness? I went off a little bit about this whole thing about generations against each other.
Dave: I agree with you. There’s an additional element to it. You’re forced into an environment with your peers, which gives you ample opportunity to compare yourself and stack yourself up against your peers. The pecking order gets established. In the schoolroom, there’ll be one pecking order and it’ll be academic. Out in the playground, it’ll be a whole different one depending proportionally on how big people are and what their athletic prowess is. Even in the schoolroom, there’s an additional dynamic and that is you all have to kowtow to this adult whom you didn’t choose. He or she was assigned to you.“Schooling forces you into an environment with your peers, giving you ample opportunity to compare and stack yourself up against others. @davidkimbell @SamanthaPostman” Click To Tweet
Samantha: It isn’t related to you. It isn’t a blood relative or a tribe relative.
Dave: The adult has little to lose by any misbehavior.
Samantha: They don’t have the same stake.
Dave: They may not have the competency. The kids are put in this position. It’s a no-win situation, which is partly what exacerbates the competitiveness between kids. They’re desperately looking to find some way to win. That’s not healthy. I look back to my school years and there’s little positive memory there at all.
Samantha: Look at what we’ve done, we’ve created thirteen years where we put them in a prison and said, “You have to stay here. We’re going to shove tons of information into your brain. You’re going to perform for us like a circus animal. When I say up, you put your paw up and put it down. You can’t make up your own tricks.” I know we’re oversimplifying because I have some teacher friends who are magnificent. I had a few who made my world. We’re generalizing, which can be dangerous. I don’t think it’s in the child’s best interest to be with only their peer group.
I’ll give you an example that got on my heart. A friend of mine, her daughter has trouble fitting in at school. She’s quieter, shyer and not as articulate as some kids probably. My friend says what I hear all these moms say, “I want my daughter to fit in. I want my child to fit in” and I signed her up for volleyball. Her daughter was not athletic and she had no desire to be athletic. I was like, “What did you do?” All it’s going to do is make her feel worse.
Dave: Her mom is desperate.
Samantha: I didn’t say this but you have no idea. I wanted to hug her and say, “Can you take your daughter down to the senior home and get her knitting with all the grannies? I promise you, that girl is going to blossom under those ladies. She is going to feel amazing about herself. She’s not going to care about those kids at school anymore. When she doesn’t care, all of a sudden, they won’t care and they’ll like her even more.” I wanted to shake her and say, “Please, take her down to the senior home and teach her to knit with the grannies.” I didn’t because I didn’t have the courage. I was like, “That’s nice. I hope it works out for you.”
Dave: It’s not a healthy environment. I put my kids through it. I didn’t know any better. Do you know Seth Godin? He published something years ago, which was a real severe critique of the public school system. He was thinking of the US particularly but it probably applies through most of the Western world anyway. It was beautifully entitled It was called Stop Stealing Dreams. In there, he argued that there were only two things that a school should be doing that possibly can’t happen in the family home. I thought these were brilliant. The two of them were lead and the other one was to solve interesting problems. That doesn’t take long to motivate kids to do that. If you figure out an interesting problem, you can lead in that problem. The kid can educate themselves. When I read that, my heart sank because by then, I knew it was too late for my kids. They were already well into secondary school and there was no point. That was not a boat that I could turn around midstream.
Samantha: I was about to cry when you said that. I’m with you with that. Most kids are not able to learn those other things at home anymore. We’ve got tons of single-parent homes who are working and by the time they get home, they don’t have the energy to be teaching those things. Often, many of them weren’t taught by anyone else to do them like budgeting. We don’t even teach our kids budgeting in school but they’re not getting it at home. In the world we live in, that needs to be an integrated part of the education system. I’d rather see the education system move a little bit more towards life skills. When you look at education, to begin with, it was a half-day. They worked at home or around their family for the rest of the day. They were learning how to cook, how to chop wood, how things work and how the world works.
Dave: Life skills.
Samantha: Now that we put them in school all day, they’re exhausted by the time they get home, their parents are exhausted and they’re not getting the life skills or learn any sport. What life skills are they getting? The school has eaten up all the time where they learned and earned life skills and not put that into the school system during the time that they took away from that. When I lived in Ecuador, what was such a smart thing to do is when you don’t have money, you get to be resourceful. They used 1 school for 3 different segments of school. Early morning was elementary, the middle day was junior high and in the evening was the senior high.
Dave: That’s clever because teenagers don’t wake up quickly. Putting them in the afternoon makes a lot of sense.
Samantha: They went later in the day. I was there during Christmas in one of the main cities, Loja. I was downtown and there were quite a few schools. The band practice was going practically all day from 7:00 AM. They’re all practicing for the Christmas plays. There’s a band in all of them. Elementary has band practice all day. The junior high come in and they’re band practicing all day. The high schoolers came in for their band practice all day.
Dave: This was top-quality music to listen to.
Samantha: There’s all of this street noise. I didn’t mind it because I love hearing life. I do get noise overload and I did bring some earplugs so I could tune out. If it wasn’t for that, I probably wouldn’t have noticed what happened. I was like, “Why is the band going from some crazy hour in the morning until some crazy hour at night?” I found out it’s because they use one physical school and they rotate the kids. What’s cool about that is in the morning when the young ones go, you’ve got your middle-agers and older agers. Even in the main cities in Ecuador, it’s still old community systems. You have your barber, your little shop and your brochures. Many block radius is your mini-community even though you’re in a city that looks like all of ours. It doesn’t look exactly like ours but they’re set up like that.
In Ecuador, you’ve got these mini-communities within the city. The city is six times my city. I’ve lived 100,000. We drive all the way to the other side to go to Costco. They don’t do that. They do all their hairdressing and tailoring their shoes. All of that is within little sub-communities within walking distance. A lot of them own little shops, traditional style. Their home is a shop and everything like that. When I saw what the school system is, you always have a child who’s at home helping out. They’re not all at school at the same time. The older ones can help in the morning. In the evening, parents are usually not busy so they can take care of the little ones at home.
You have to remember that they use cousins and everything. It’s not like us where we’re only using siblings because they all live close. It’s cousins and neighbors and whatever. You’ve got different ranges of age. The childcare is built-in. If you’re running a mom-and-pop shop, you’ve got different ages of kids at home at different times. Not all the kids are gone at the same time. This need for babysitting or childcare doesn’t exist. A lot of them are both working. They don’t need it. The cool thing is that the young adults, the older ones or the high schoolers get to be at home during the day and learn those life skills when they get to be in the shop. They get to learn to trade, which is what used to happen in the old days, people were learning their parent’s trade.
Dave: It’s far healthier.
Samantha: That’s what’s given my kids an advantage because we’ve run a farm. There’s no separation. I don’t know if you know what farm life is like but your home life is not separate from your work life. It’s all one thing.
Dave: My brother-in-law’s a dairy farmer. Work never stops and never starts.“Work never stops and never starts. @davidkimbell @SamanthaPostman” Click To Tweet
Samantha: It’s one life. It’s a life. Something that gives my kids an edge over other kids is our kitchen table crosses as a boardroom. How many kids have their entire childhood brought up where you’re talking return on investments, managing employees, managing shipping loads going in and out and new technology? It’s a business school for how many years. I have some friends who are part of a leader impact who will be like, “I keep my work and my home separate.” I’m like, “You should be talking about your work at home. Talk about what you do, why you do it, what you like about it, what jobs you’re working on because your kids are going to pick all that up. It’s extra education.”
Dave: I agree. I got gypped of all that. I was raised by a civil servant scientist father who couldn’t. It was all military so he couldn’t talk about work much when he came home at all. Occasionally, he’d slip a few things and he’d say, “Don’t repeat that.” I never got to see what he did. I had to learn myself the hard way when I finally hit the work world in my twenties as well. I’m probably more typical of most people in that regard.
Samantha: Most people don’t do it. The culture is to ask your child what they did at school. It’s all about your child, their friends, their everything. It’s all child-focused. There is value in that but we’ve gone overboard. I have a separate business and my kids sometimes will say to me, “Mom, don’t talk about your business when we go camping.” I’m like, “Have you ever told dad never to talk about farming when we’re camping?” Never. My work is separate. I have some serious finance skills and I didn’t pass them on to my kids because farming took up a lot of discussions. In a roundabout way, I did pass some of it on. Hard skills, I didn’t. Some of it was because it was like, “Don’t talk about your work here.” We should be talking about our work here.
Dave: It’s all part of life skills.
Samantha: It was educating them. Those little ones are a version of you. They may not look like you even but they’re going to think of it simply by being in your home. It’s much easier to teach them because you can generally speak to them in a shared language and a shared body language. Some of it is easy and it’s going to be easy for them to pick it up. In a way, it’s like picking up a language from a parent. They’re going to pick up so many cues that they won’t even be able to pick up in a school simply because you guys are speaking a shared language. I’m talking the full language, metaphors and all of that. I have some friends that are architects and if we ever talk I’m like, “Go take your drawings out. Put it on the table and be like, ‘I’ve been looking at this at work.’” Your little one, start them young. Get them on your knee, start pointing things out and get familiar with them. It becomes muscle memory and they don’t even know it. It feels familiar.
Dave: I wish I had that.
Samantha: Now we’re speaking. Anyone who’s reading out there, if this makes an impact on you and changes your life, please DM Dave Kimbell or me on our Twitter because we’d love to hear if this made a difference. If our conversation can be the difference that someone’s like, “I need to do that.” They start doing this with their kids. Look how many people we could impact by having this conversation and saying it out loud. What else do you have for me?
Dave: What’s 10-D?
Samantha: On my About page, I have what says, “I see the world in 10-D.” A friend of mine coined that. I’ve done some work for a client and a friend. That happens sometimes. I love working with people who have in-home businesses and seeing how their workflow is and their family life and helping them get a good workflow. She was launching a brand-new online product. With COVID, she couldn’t have people physically present as much. She tried to figure out what to do. We’re working through this and I’m adding in family elements, marketing and different generations. Two seconds later, we’re talking about something else and then I’m like, “Let’s change your SEO.” She got a $15,000 client the next morning. We changed her SEO at 8:00 PM and she got a $15,000 client the next morning.
Dave: You can attribute that to SEO?
Samantha: Yes. I don’t know SEO. I understand the premise of it. I went to look at hers and I was like, “These aren’t words that other people use. You’re using industry words.”
Dave: SEO doesn’t usually take effect that quickly but that sounds interesting.
Samantha: We put it on the main description on her website, the one that shows up on Google. That’s still SEO. I was like, “You’re using industry words. If I was searching for this, this is what your clients would look for.” We changed some words. Five minutes later, I’m talking about some special grant that we can use on her accounting because I’m a tax expert. She was looking at the table and she’s like, “Some people see the world in 5-D, Samantha. You see the world in 10-D. It is amazing. You can flip so fast between people, personalities, roles and then you see the world.” I feel people and I can emotionally connect with the person that might be with them and emotionally connect with who that they might be gravitating towards for customers or whatever. This was something she coined. It was a compliment. It was beautiful what she said.
Dave: As you tell that story, I understand it. I believe it.
Samantha: She’s got some online offerings now and they were a one-month package. She has one that she’s been running for quite a few years. I was like, “We need to name the package.” She’s like, “What do we name it?” I couldn’t think of the word. Do you know how you got a word on the tip of your tongue and you can’t think of it? I’m like, “I know what to do because this is what I do.” I got up and started pacing her living room and I’m like, “We’re talking about this.” I’m like, “Signature Series. This is your Signature Series package.” That’s the one she booked the next day for $15,000. I got up and I knew that I needed to think and I knew that it would come so I walked and I’m talking in the room. She’s listening to where my brain is going. I’m like, “It’s something that you’ve done well. It’s something that lots of clients talk about. Get the most referrals.” I’m like, “I know what the word is now.”
Dave: My brain will do that but it’ll usually be overnight.
Samantha: Things do come later too. That’s where it came from. There’s a funny story about that. My show is called Bold Perspectives. Originally, it was called Inspire HDR. That look on your face, it’s exactly why I didn’t use it. I went to Podetize, who’s producing my show and did an opening interview and they’re like, “What’s the name?” I told them this and they’re like, “What’s that about?” I was like, “Okay.” I’ll tell you what it is and you’ll see why I use 10-D instead of HDR. HDR is High Dynamic Range. I used to be a professional photographer for a period of time. In photography, there’s HDR photography. For any of you who don’t know what HDR photography is, it’s when you take a picture or you take a photograph in multiple exposures.
For example, I might take eight exposures. I’m going to overexpose it so the photo will be almost all white. What I’m doing is getting all the details of the white. This is why I see more color because I’m a photographer. The whites all have little variances in them. You overexpose to get all the variances. You do levels of that to underexpose where the image is almost completely black. The middle is going to be what your normal picture would look like. It’s what we call the gray tones or evened out. In HDR photography, what we do is we take all those eight photos in all those different exposure levels, all the lights, all the way dark and everything in between. We then sandwich them together to create a vibrant photo, High Dynamic Range.
Costa Rica Monteverde HDR (High Dynamic Range) Image on Top
Normally, when you look at a photograph of a rock, you’re going to see the light on the top. On the bottom, you’re going to see a lot of blacks because the sun only goes on a certain part of the rock. In an HDR photo, you will see all the color and details and all the crevices of the black under the rock where the sun isn’t because I’ve taken all those exposures. When I say that I see the world in HDR, what I’m saying is I see all those little details, all the little colors in the dark and I see them in the light. That’s how I see the world. That’s how I describe it to people. When I say HDR, all I’m saying is I’m trying to inspire people to look for the details in the light and the dark and see everything in between. Its depth and vibrancy.
Dave: It’s a skill I probably do have, maybe not visually.
Samantha: It’s not just visual for me. I sense people. I see people. It’s more than a visual. That’s the only way I can explain it when I use HDR.
Dave: I understand where you are going. I probably function that way auditorily because I’m an amateur musician.
Samantha: It’s like an intuition of depth for something.
Dave: In my case, I can sense where the music is about to go.
Samantha: As a little side note, when you look at an HDR photo, it’s overstimulating for most people. There’s too much information for us to process. I get that. I’m too much information for people. I overload people. My brain overloads because there’s so much information. An HDR photograph has too much information. Humans like to see a black with no details in it because there’s too much to process in one photo. To see all the details in every single thing is too much. It’s overloading. It almost looks cartoonish in a way. If you look at an HDR photograph, it has a cartoonish look to it.
A good photographer will do that and then blend it lightly so you don’t notice that it’s HDR. You’ll see details but it doesn’t look overdone. You won’t even know that the photographer does that. It’s pretty clever. You can blend different things. You can take a photo on regular if you want to call it that and then do one that way and then blend them together. Make the one that’s vibrant with all the information and have it 10%. It would give your normal photo a little extra. It’s giving it a slight amount of texture that is enough that people would go, “Huh?” Not without them going, “There’s something more with that.”
Dave: You apply that to about everything, I expect. You’ve done the photography bit. You’re a farm wife, a manager, you’ve been a tax strategist as well and you mentor young adults.
Samantha: Not as much but I have done quite a bit in the past. My children are young adults. Most of my energy is going into them specifically.
Dave: It wasn’t off to a great start, either. You had a less than ideal start in life.
All I can say is wow. That’s cool.
Samantha: Is it Joe Rogan style?
Dave: No. I would say it’s a Samantha Postman style as it should be. You take it from here. I don’t know but you’re going to take it somewhere. I can tell that.
Samantha: I don’t know where it’s going. Sometimes we have these goals and I’m in those exec worlds where productivity and goals where the goal is almost becoming a four-letter word to me. I love it but I hate it. I just know a lot of people are making a lot of money off of my mind. I make a lot of my friends a lot of money. I’m always giving advice to people and helping them out with things. It’s like, “Now it’s time to focus on helping.” I was always helping build other people up in ways. It’s not always about money. That was me being a little cheeky about that but to succeed, I love helping other people succeed. It gives me unbelievable amounts of joy to watch people succeed. It cannot be done simultaneously.
Can I help others succeed and at the same time succeed myself? I’m successful but I’m talking about a different success. I’m not sure what that all means yet. I’m open to people saying, “You could do this.” I don’t know what to do with it. When it’s our own story, it’s so much more clouded. When it’s a client, it’s clear for me what direction for them to go or to steer towards but with your own stuff, it’s not like that. If you have anything before you go, if you have any ideas, I’d love to hear them.
Dave: I won’t have anything before I go but I would like to do this again. Thank you for that. It’s been fantastic. It doesn’t have to be recorded. I would like to chat again and if let’s carry this conversation going and you have some more with some other folks as well.
Samantha: I’m so glad you joined us. With us, this episode was Dave Kimbell and we unpacked a lot of great nuggets. There were tears, laughing and silence. There was not a lot of silence on my part, unfortunately but hopefully, you’re here for the show because you don’t mind that part. It’s been a pleasure. I was honored that you reached out and wanted to talk to me. Honored that you stayed and were a good listener. I’m also honored to learn a little bit about you, about your background and I can definitely tell that you’re a thinker too. It’s magical when you get to meet another thinker. Something that I appreciated is how open you were to listen to some new ideas. It was obvious that some of them were newer to you. You asked good questions. Thank you for being on the show. I appreciate it.
Dave: This has been an incredible privilege and pleasure. Thanks very much.
Samantha: Thanks, Dave. For those of you who are reading, if you’ve got some comments and something that we touched on that Dave and I talked about and you feel a need to reach out, feel free to reach out to us. Even if we don’t respond, your articulation is going to be therapy. The fact that you took the time to articulate your thoughts and your feelings and your response is therapy, it’s meaningful. I want you to know that there’s power in that and power for you. Dave may respond. That’s up to Dave but definitely in the comments, if you have an opportunity to comment. Give us a rating, let us know how you feel about what’s talked about and refer. Tell people about it. There were some nuggets that we talked about and we’re not going to change the world if it doesn’t go any further. If you want to help change the world or improve the world then please feel free to share the nuggets that you heard on the show or share the show over. Thanks, Dave.
Dave: Thanks a lot.
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About Dave Kimbell
Ghostwriting entrepreneur for high-growth Ottawa/Kanata startups. Writes on Twitter, Medium, LinkedIn & Quora about wealth, crypto-currencies, human nature, persuasion, and occasionally past experiences as an aerospace/systems engineer. Twitter Space host.
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